Apartheid era corruption?

Question

We always here that the current government is corrupt……..it is admitted that there are two categories of corruption….actual and perceptive corruption………

The strange thing is that those who make too much noise about corruption in the current government have not given any proof (save for Shabir Shaik and Yengeni cases)…if we take these only two cases, we can not really talk about “widespread corruption”……..

On the other hand, some of these people always remind us of the “past” first world country that South Africa allegedly was (I’m still waiting for proof that it was ever first world)…….but these same people overtly or covertly don’t want us to refer to the bad practices of the “past” government…..they want us to accept that the past is the past and we must look to the future (which has been blacked out by electricity crises)…….I’m willing to look to the future….but I can’t do so without referring to the past and the present……..

My question therefore is: Can you mention any corrupt practices of the past government. How much (if any) public money was officially corruptly used the previous government…..was there anybody who was positively fingered?..if so, what happened to them……if none or some were not brought to book, shouldn’t the current government do so………in order to show even-handedness in dealing with allegations of corruption, and also prove the Sesotho saying that “molato ha o bole” (trans… long arm of the law)?

Answer 1

Hi Zim$



Good questions.



It all boils down to the double standards some of the whites in this forum have.

They can use the past but we can't.

Bull can be racist its fine but let me stand up to his racism then Ayiza is the racist.



Zim you know very well that this has been happening since last especially when "WRRR" and "De La Rey" were around.



Heavy D

Power was not handed over the NP lost the 1994 election what are you talking about.



**********

Alf

Aaah! Yes you are talking about the meeting that took place in "Area 51".

Damn how could I miss that silly me.

Thanks Alf.

Answer 2

I remember reading about the very few SANDF soldiers in Angola who were brought to book for rape... the highest sentence ever handed down was a R50 fine. There were, of course, many such cases, but the government managed to censor it, just like everything else. If that's not corrupt, I don't know what is.



If reading isn't your thing, get an old cop or servicemen drunk, and the things they tell you will make your skin crawl.



You must remember that the government of the day held a very tight leash over the media, and there's a lot of stuff that happened that we will never even know of. That's what happens in a military dictatorship.



I hope that helps a bit with your question, since probably everybody will slam you for this question.



How you wish to apply this to our present situation in South Africa is beyond me, though.

Answer 3

The Information Scandal comes to mind although I do not know the full details.

However, what you cannot ignore Zim is the constant blocking by Mbeki into any kind of investigation into the Arms Deal.Many of the details were exposed by the Mail & Guardian more than a year ago and it seems now that the German Government are in a position to "force" and investigation.



You also cannot ignore that many of the appointees to State and quasi State organs are political appointees i.e. Mbeki stooges and too many to list have been involved in corruption on a large scale.

You also cannot ignore the racist Laws of AA and BEE that have seen incompetent persons into positions and the subsequent fraud and corruption. Let me cite for instance the Dept of Home Affairs where the British Government have had to step in prevent the number of "illegals" entering the UK carrying fraudulent SA Passports. This affects EVERY South African regardless of colour and whether or not they are honest or dishonest. What about the likes of Sexwhale and Ramaphosa who only started 1 (0ne) business with their own money and it collapsed after 6 months? That they made their wealth on the back of UN sanctions busting deals with Saddam Hussein, ANC awarded contracts and the strong arming of White owned Businesses into giving them free shares which they subsequently sold at huge profit?

I would not try and protect the Nationalists or any other Government who are corrupt and dishonest but the ANC have taken it to a new level. You cannot deny that almost everything South African nowadays is questionnable from quality to qualifications to honesty and that puts every South African under the spotlight.

Two wrongs dont make a right and Heavy D is spot on. More of the same if you like is not what South Africans voted for or wanted.



Ayiza - You really are a dumb cluck.You dont know (or want to know) the history of your own Country. The CIA brokered a deal with the then Government to hand over to a Black Government and Buthelezi was first choice.It is all in recently released CIA documents and if that had happened your dear old ANC would still be "sitting in exile" whingeing and moaning and bombing innocent people of all colours.

Answer 4

You site two cases of highly publicised corruption and say this is the premise for our misconception of wide spread corruption. You really are a puppet arn't you.

The police force is corrupt, the judicial service is corrupt

the civil service is corrupt there is not one thing that the ANC touches that it doesn't corrupt, becauseb they are greedy.

The whole is country is like a pus-filled, gangaerous wound and the hyenas and the jackals are feasting.

Only when you and all people like you admit the truth will Our country start to heal.

We are the patriots not you, what would you have said on the titanic, its not sinking it's just a bit buoyancy challenged?

TRY THIS SITE FOR OUR MISCONCIEVED IDEAS ON THE NONEXISTENT CORRUPTION IN SOUTH AFRICA.

would you like somemore??

Sorry Zim$ I was going to refer to you as an ANC ventrilloquists dummy, but sounded impolite, if you do not like being called a puppet maybe you stop acting like one and start thinking for yourself for once, perhaps you would prefer STOOGE?



The only serious act of corruption that I encountered from the Nats was when they sold us out to the ANC.

Ive just remembered another example of white corruption in an SA government, you will love this, how about the genocide of ethnic cleansing, where the British government, through Lord Kitchener ( Die Groot Slagter.), ordered the systematic slaughter of every Boer that was found, sons would be forced to dig their own fathers grave and made to watch their execution, they also put the Boer women,children and Old people into concentration camps and left them there to die of starvation. sqallor,disease and thirst. where 27,000, innocent, non-combatant women and children died in the worst posible conditions imaginable.

Now that is quite corrupt wouldn't you say?

Answer 5

I realy don't care what happened in the past anymore ,harsh as it may sound , we wanted a change for the better and we as white people paid a price for handing it all over to the new government . We trusted them to not make the same mistakes and believed that everything will eventualy change for the better . What did we get ?

It is not suppose to be a contest who was the most corrupt government ........

Dammit , we want something better , two wrongs don't make a right !

I can challenge you to post all the links that you can find of corruption from the old government and for each link you can provide I can at least post five of the current one ! That will be of no help and you know it ! It is time for new brooms as they sweep cleaner !

As for Sesotho saying : A re bereka ka moka go aga SA gape !

Answer 6

Of Course there was corruption. What Country does not have it, in some form. They problem here and in most African Countries is, they are not satisfied with milking the Cow and taking the Cream. They have to kill the Cow, slowly and painfully and will not be satisfied, or realise the consequences, until there is only the Bleached Bones left.

Answer 7

regrettably it fairly is actual to 3 improve. regardless of each and every thing the colonial powers left, Africa has became right into a bloody battleground with tribal conflict killing hundreds of thousands and corrupt dictators combating them from making any progression. Africa is doubtlessly a wealthy continent, there is oil, minerals interior the floor. gold, diamonds. they must be residing conveniently with reliable jobs and money interior the financial employer. rather they are the two ravenous or getting killed in civil wars.

Answer 8

Your question is little more than the continued denial of the obvious and the hope of pushing the ANC's disastrous management of South Africa onto the white guilt and Apartheid band wagon.

Rather lame, what next, are you going to reference "proof" of the former governments indiscretions as prepared in report format by the ANC and their cronies themselves?

The decay in South Africa under the ANC is not an opinion, Moloi, and is clearly visible to any person prepared to see the truth and living in South Africa on a daily basis

Corruption is furthermore evident in ANY government, the extent of corruption in the ANC controlled government is however exorbitant and typical of any African majority ruled nation whether you would continue to deny and obfuscate matters or not.

The Land Bank, the Arms Deal, Oilgate, Travelgate, virtually all government tenders and departments, all tainted with fraud, corruption and ineptitude and yet all you can do is attempt to pass the buck on to Apartheid.



Edit***

I have more than adequately answered the question, "Corruption is furthermore evident in ANY government...."

I would add however that under Apartheid it was common for ministers of parliament to be forced into resignation for ineptitude and fraud. Have you forgotten of Prime Minister, John Vorster, and the Information Scandal? Have any ANC ministers ever even been reprimanded for their ineptitude and corruption? Name one.



XXX

Have the ANC created any so called "sacrificial lambs" for their ineptitude and corruption?

Answer 9

Thanks Zim, blaming the old government for the ills of the current government is not constructive yet on the other hand I have noticed this rose-tinted amnesia about how things were in the past. Let's face it from 1976-1988 and sporadically until 1994 it was not so great in SA either? Anyone still remember 1988. Unfortunately when I have tried to point this out I have been howled down called a communist ANC supporter etc etc etc When I presented a limited handful of verified sources for my claims, on being challenged, there was a poo-pooing or an awkward silence. When I presented two alternate views of the Eishkom crisis, I was given a violation notice...

Very sad really....

Answer 10

I can think of any Zim....what I do remember is when I was small I could play and ride my bike outside in the street day and night without fear, we slept with our doors and windows open, I walked to school for 12 years without any incidents .....I felt so safe.

Answer 11

two wrongs don't make a right. Bull has it 100% right - people were reprimanded under the old regime... and that makes the difference!

Answer 12

A lot was said during the TRC. Why can't you get TRC transcripts. They could be helpful.